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posted by: kreativekat (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (11:16 am) yeeks that's pretty bad. I agree about the whole respect. There are better ways of critiqing(spelling?) and still being respectful,then the way it was done on that poor girls blog. posted by: emptypseudonym (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (11:18 am) Oh, let me proclaimeth, with platitudes aboundin'.... More bitten off, than we're capable of chewin' posted by: childish (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (11:34 am) interesting. i had a similar post this week. while i am all for debate when it is respectful and honest, this influx of personal attacks by juni and others is a bit dissapointing. I expected better. that said, I know what its like to hate someone so much that you want to tell them so. good thought provoking stuff! posted by: lindy (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (11:42 am) Alt, I have no doubt that many people will heed this calling and offer up agreeing sentiments regarding the lack of grace in the handling of differing opinions and the concept of sincerity. I am at the front of that line, literally, as I am sure you realize. I wonder, will there be anyone who steps forward and gives their honest opinion regarding the author's work and talent? It should be interesting to see how this plays out. posted by: juniperflux (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (11:56 am) Reply to: childish "this influx of personal attacks by juni and others is a bit dissapointing." Um. Huh? I have yet to attack anyone. Perhaps you need to read the thread a bit more carefully, dear... or you need to define what you consider a "personal attack." If terms like remorseless, despicable and schizophrenic don't qualify... then by all means, please point out to me what I said that does. posted by: childish (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (12:02 pm) Reply to: juniperflux i was referring to comments you have left on other blogs. specifically on cmaze's. but your opinion is yours to share, so lets not argue. posted by: juniperflux (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (12:15 pm) Reply to: childish Hmmm. Apparently I am still not clear on what you define as a personal attack. Telling Chris openly and honestly that I found the artwork that he chose to display offensive is a personal attack? I never said Chris was offensive nor did I belittle him or point out to him that there are different definitions for the words to, too and two when he accidently mixed them up in a comment. Now, in my opinion, that would have been a personal attack... but apparently, I'm wrong. Honestly, I don't want to argue either... but please, feel free to enlighten me. posted by: billlyryan (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (2:47 pm) I'm just sitting here in front of the computer with a blank stare. Half of me is afraid I'll be attacked for anything. The other half has alot to say but no words. I remember in high school though, wanting to be a part of the in crowd. Marsha, Becky, Michele, and Kristin. They were the IT girls. I tried so hard to be a part of that group. Then I developed a crush on Kristin. I wrote her a love note because on day in art class she said "Oh Edwin, I love you!" I thought she meant it. So I wrote her a note proclaiming my love in return. Two weeks later, Becky was having a two day party because her parents were out of town. I was invited by Becky out of the blue. So the first night I went and played quarters and made jokes and got a little tipsy. I was invited back the 2nd night. Now keep in mind, these were THE popular kids in school. I went back the second night and Becky was happy to see me. She got me a beer from the fridge and I set it down. When I went to pick it up again someone had replaced with a bottle of spit and cigarettes. I didn't know this until I had taken a drink. About an hour later I started feeling kind of funny and then sick. So, to make a short story long, I laid down on the couch, all the girls were locked in Becky's room and I had been told I couldn't enter that room. I laid on the couch where all the boys in the room started kicking me and punching me in the gut. One boy, Colin punched me in the face and yelled "Bitch, Dike, Whore!" at me and they told me to leave and that I didn't belong there. Needless to say, I left. But I remember that feeling. I remember trying so hard to be someone I wasn't. I remember 7 years later when that night came pouring back into my mind and I cried at the memory, that I never wanted to say something to someone that would tear them down like I was. No matter how fancy the words. Call me insincere, question my motivations on every comment I make, I have been called worse. posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (3:14 pm) Reply to: kreativekat Well, for the most part we're all shaked out now, although there may be a few hurt feelings for some time to come. I shouldn't have made this a public forum on my own blog, either. But what's done is done. Thanks for coming by and weighing in. I really appreciate it. posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (3:18 pm) Reply to: childish Oh, I'll have to go check out your post. I think in this situation it was a real and reasonable concern that was perhaps conveyed in an overly aggressive manner and then mushroomed into an incident. This must be how wars get started. Each of the 3 major (commenting) players here were all operating under the idea of their just conviction. I still stand by my own, as well as many of the things I said, but I am definitely interested in healing for everyone involved, especially the innocent parties. posted by: AmyLeeZealot (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (3:19 pm) Wow, that "coherent" person is an ass. I can't believe that. I don't really understand why people feel like they can treat others that way and get away with it. I would hope s/he cleans up their act. Good for you for speaking up! posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (3:21 pm) Reply to: lindy I think a great deal has been said about lovesunshine writing talent. This goes back 10 months to the days of some. Why is it that everyone who keeps a home on tblog must be judged by their writing skills? Can't anyone just be a decent person??? I'm serious about this, Lindy. What is it with the focus on writing. That's about as fair as criticizing someone for not being beautiful. After all, anyone can be more beautiful if they TRIED. So what? Don't read them if you don't like their posts. posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (3:44 pm) Reply to: billlyryan I wouldn't have stood for that, either. Of course, I wouldn't have been invited in the first place... ;oD BUT, if I had been, I would have warned you about the bottle, and taken you home. There's advantages in having nothing to lose.... :oD posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (3:49 pm) Reply to: AmyLeeZealot Not really an ass. She's a complicated woman who meant well in her way. And I guess she didn't really "get away with it". It turned out that it really was a friend of mine, and we talked about the issues, agreed in some places and disagreed in others. Such is life, no? There are worse things than that. It's the inability to stand on even slightly common ground that leads to things like the London attack. I can't be party to enmity. Certainly not among friends and also not for long. Thanks for coming by. You're a good soul. posted by: lindy (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (4:37 pm) Reply to: altricial Not judging her on her writing style, but rather her intentions of publishing. I've not left a comment anywhere else there in reference to her writing. Though not expressly stated in those terms, we know that publishing would be the end result if said author had her way, as would it be for any of us with aspirations of being a professional writer. It was born from that idea and the fact that people seem to praise her and then contradict that praise in private. I'll never be able to see that as a lesser crime than the vicious wording I used to convey my concerns, though I readily admit it was insensitive of me and clearly, my ego checked in a ton on this thread. I've addressed my concerns in detail there and extend my apologies for being the means of suffering. posted by: lindy (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (4:44 pm) Reply to: billlyryan BR, I do not mean to minimize the pain you experienced in dealing with those girls who clearly set you up with the intention of hurting you and enjoying witnessing your suffering. It is not my intention to hurt you. I am not looking for a way to belittle you or make you feel bad, nor do I need to feel better about myself, that isn't at all coming to pass here, and I'm not about to call you names. As I said before, I am sorry for being hurtful and blunt in the way I chose to raise my concerns. There are better ways. I hope you can see from where my concern came. This is a situation where we can all find a way to grow. I wish you nothing but positive times to come. posted by: lindy (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (4:55 pm) Reply to: AmyLeeZealot Greetings, AmyLee. Ass here. I suspect the day my act is 'cleaned up' is the day I head for another existence not of this planet and the same can be said for many a human here. The majority of us spend our lives trying to 'get it right' - sometimes we hit sometimes we miss. While it is true that I handled myself with the grace of a raging bull, I was 'speaking up' for situations I found intolerable. No excuses for my wording and manner. While you can't believe I could be so mean, I can't believe that girl has been blogging away for a couple of years and people seem to think it perfectly okay to tell her how wonderful her writing is all the while whispering behind the scense that it's atrocious. *That* was half of what I was ruffled about and what I failed to make clear was that this is happening with quite a few people, not just one person who frequents her blog. The other half is concerning propriety and appearances and assumptions in a public setting, but I shan't waste yours or my time expounding on that. It's all laid out in grand technicolor fashion on LoveSunshine's blog, any time you wish to rehash it. Cheers. posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (5:00 pm) Reply to: lindy I'm not sure why you "know" that. I know of more people who have written book after book after book that they never sent to a publisher. I also know of published authors who wrote 4 or 5 books before sending the last one, and getting it published. More than one of them has said that their first few books were crap, but each one got better. Not everyone writes a book to get published, not everyone paints a picture to hang in a gallery, not everyone makes up a song to get a recording contract. posted by: lindy (reply) post date: 07.07.05 (5:28 pm) Reply to: altricial Hmmm. Then we have differing experiences regarding this. There's only one person who can confirm or deny the longing of being a pubished author and her specific intent behind 'writing a book' and I'm not so sure she will be commenting here. That said, given the related threads, it would be difficult for her or anyone to say at this point that they do or don't have intentions of being published - there's a bit invested now. It would seem a fair assumption that when someone makes mention of a post being part of a book they are writing, there is a strong chance it is the author's intention that it be published, providing it turns out to be any good and of course, feedback is an excellent way to determine this. posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.08.05 (6:01 am) Reply to: lindy Throughout the course of this miasma, many red herrings tangents and wild detours have taken place. And I know that you have apologized for your words as "coherent", so I don't mean to belabour the point, but I must point out that "don't kid yourself for a split second that your empty little head actually can formulate enough coherent thoughts to spit out a sentence, let alone a paragraph... an entire book? It's too much to be born" ...is not feedback. "If you are indeed writing a book about your family life, it sounds like you have lots of material. The flow of your sentences, however, lacks coherence. And the punctuation and grammer need a lot of work. Keep trying." That's feedback. posted by: lindy (reply) post date: 07.08.05 (3:25 pm) Reply to: altricial As I felt that familiar surge rising within, I took part of your advice and stepped away so as not to repeat that occasional tendency to say things far more heated than they need. 'I don't mean to belabour the point, but I must point out that...' I'd say you did exactly mean to belabor the point, otherwise you'd not have felt the need to bring it back up and when I say bring it back up, I mean exactly that. My last comment here was roughly 95% concerning whether it was that person's intention to write a book or not. That last line was a reflection made in general terms and you have chosen to make it absolutely about that specific thread, which had nothing to do with it. Since you chose to 'belabor the point' - I'll do same... Only, this point I am yet again addressing is about how extremely clear I have been in admitting to my inappropriate criticism, or rather the flavor of such and the cruelty in which I engaged. I have apologized up and down the block for that which I did wrong and the funny thing is, I'm looking around at all that ensued and don't see a lot of unencumbered apologies in any other camps. At this junture, Alt, what is your purpose in bringing about this point again? If you stop and think about it, did you really think for a second that I did not *get* that what I said was not constructive criticism and was actually a mean thing to say? Did you really think I was in need of being taught the difference given where this conversation has led? Was I really and truly not coherent this time around? Did I not make clear how obvious the difference is between criticism and cruelty? And have you ever been in doubt that I do not know the difference independent of this latest exchange? My ego stood up a bit when I realized you were trying to give me a lesson in the difference. In fact, it is at bat as I write and I see this. I admit, I was tempted to return the favor. But what I prefer to do is to point out that your insistence in 'belaboring the point' in searching for a reference that wasn't there has demonstrated a couple of things to me. Firstly, it would seem that your tongue-in-cheek comment from some time ago proved quite right in that there seems to be something that causes you to look for fault even where it may not be when it comes to the things I say. I'm not quite so quick to assume that I bring this out in you, but would rather tend to think it lies closer to home. And secondly, that perhaps this exchange has bothered you more than even you realize or do not wish to admit. I know it has caused me to step back and re-examine the values and principles I hold dear and how they rank in the people I have come to know here. I'm sure we are all doing that to a degree. It would seem that regardless of how tactfully I employ my thoughts here in this particular thread, they are destined to be stantioned into directions of your choosing. I realize a fault-finding tendency must surely be exacerbated by my display that started this entire ride, which is why I now excuse myself from this thread in the hopes of allowing everyone to continue forward. posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.09.05 (5:09 am) Reply to: BobbyJoe Thanks for your comment. I know you're a big fan of BR. Sorry I didn't reply back right away. This whole drama of this is a bit... encompasing. posted by: AmyLeeZealot (reply) post date: 07.09.05 (8:28 am) Reply to: altricial I'm glad you got it all sorted out. I wish everything in life would end up that way! posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.09.05 (11:01 am) Reply to: AmyLeeZealot Well, it ended a little different than the last comment, as we're now going our seperate ways. But that, too, is life. There is no enmity on my part, just the knowledge that sometimes I must make choices. posted by: BerlinBear (reply) post date: 07.09.05 (1:15 pm) Gosh! The things you miss when you don't read around the blogs for a few days. Crikey! posted by: trekguy (reply) post date: 07.10.05 (1:39 am) Reply to: BerlinBear Ah ....... yeah, I'll say! Damn I leave for a week and ........ *I'm speechless* posted by: trekguy (reply) post date: 07.10.05 (1:40 am) *Just sits here dumbfounded ..... speechless* posted by: BerlinBear (reply) post date: 07.10.05 (7:14 am) Reply to: trekguy Well you can come over here and join me in the speechless corner. ;-) posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.10.05 (3:42 pm) Reply to: BerlinBear Yeah. Sorry. Like a trip back to Jr. High, Aren't we? My apologies. At least we have the attractiveness of the usual tragedy. Keeps tblog from being too boring, right? ;| posted by: altricial (reply) post date: 07.10.05 (3:43 pm) Reply to: trekguy Well, that's exactly what I set out to do. This was all a scam perpetrated while you were gone to keep you from ever leaving that long again.... OK - no it wasn't. But did I have you for 1/2 a sec? |
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